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digg Filing an Appeal with PayPal
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posted by sysrpl on Thursday June 6, 2019 10:22 AM

he TLDR: A buyer returned a laptop I sold them loosely placed in a cardboard box. Now it is physically broken in several places.

The laptop I sold

Dear PayPal, here is more information regarding my dispute.

I've been selling on Ebay for what will be twenty years this coming October. Recently an Ebay customer , real name of , bought a reconditioned laptop from me (see attached original photos). I had a 30 day return policy and they contacted me at 40 days after their receipt asking for a return. I asked what the problem was and also explain because it was beyond the 30 days I could not accept a return, but perhaps I could give them technical support, a partial refund, or an exchange if they could explain the nature of the problem.

The customer responded that the program crashes and they want a refund (no further details are offered, see attached conversion logs). I explain again I cannot issue a refund after the 30 days of their receipt. They threaten to go to PayPal and file a dispute asking for a refund.

Since it seems they are determined to return the laptop I begrudgingly decide to go through Ebay instead of PayPal and issue them a return label. A week later they still haven't mailed the item back and have now opened a PayPal dispute. I respond on PayPal in their resolution center that I already handled it through Ebay and am waiting for them to return the item.

Eventually I receive the laptop return. When I open their return box I see a laptop inside a box loose with no packing material to cushion the laptop. The laptop was just sliding around in the box loose with nothing to hold it from getting all banged up.

Their packing is on the left in a blue box and mine is on the right in a brown box.
When I take the laptop out of the box I see the following damage (see attach damage photos): A torn out USB 2.0 port, a smashed corner with plastic parts missing, and a crushed lid.

What should I do in situations like this where the buyer either dropped a laptop and packed it poorly on return conceal that fact, or is oblivious to common logic as to how to pack and ship a weighty piece of fragile electronics?

Here are copies of my correspondence with through Ebay messages. Note that is bothered because the computer doesn't run as well as she believes it should. Nowhere does she say that the computer is physically damaged.


Hello, this computer doesn’t work right. The program freezes and shuts down. I would like to return it.


I am sorry to hear about your problems. I try to make sure every laptop I sell is thoroughly tested before I ship it out. Unfortunately the return policy is 30 days and you are past that point. What I can do is assist in fixing the problems and perhaps send you another partial refund.

Can you tell me which program freezes and shuts down?

Let me know what you want to do.


I don’t want a partial refund, I want to return it. It doesn’t function correctly. It obviously wasn’t not check throughly. It’s frustrating that I’ve use it recently because I was moving and now that I’m settled I see that it doesn’t run smoothly. I’ve used it 4 different and the last 2 times its being a nightmare.


I want to help you resolve this matter. I contacted Ebay and they say returns are not covered after 30 days. This means if I receive the item back from you and if the item does not arrive or is damaged beyond the condition you received it in, I will not be protected. As a result I cannot offer you a return. I know that's not what you want to hear, but at this point I cannot offer you a return.


I purchased it with PayPal they protect the purchase so if your ur not willing to take it back I will open a claim.

After this exchange with I realized she was looking for way around the return policy and would likely try to file a PayPal dispute instead. After I researched the polices of Ebay versus PayPal returns I decided to keep the dispute within Ebay and offered her a return through Ebay.

Here are copies of my correspondence with again after I received the improperly packed and damaged laptop back from her.

Damage to the laptop as I received it.

Email message from me to buyer:


Today I received the laptop you returned. Upon receiving your return I noticed a few problems which require your attention.

It appears the laptop you sent me is physically damaged well beyond what you have described. Can you please describe in detail the physical condition of the laptop as you received it from me other than not having lid hatch hooks? I need to determine how this damaged occurred. I have plenty of very high resolution photos of the laptop before I sent it to you, and plenty of it after I received it back.

Also, in this situation it is very important you describe the manner in which your item was packed. I received the laptop back from in two cardboard boxes and a paper envelope. Is this accurate or would you like to add to my description?

I've attached a pdf (damage-claim.pdf) with three schematic views of the exact model you received. You might find it helpful to refer to it when describing the condition of the laptop when you received it from me. You might also want to print out the pdf and highlight it with notes and send it back to me.


Email reply from buyer:

This whole experience has been a nightmare! I don’t have time to deal with this. I sent it back to you the same way you sent it to me. The computer arrived damaged. I made you aware of the latched the moment I received it. I had again the same issue return it. Your return label was again incorrect and I had to wait 30 minutes to talk to the manager to get them to bill you. Enough is enough! Credit my account!

Email message from me to buyer:


I have been very prompt and courteous with you. I take the situation seriously and want to underscore a few important things. First and foremost is that I am an individual, not a big corporation like Amazon. I cannot afford to absorb financial loses just because a customer is upset. I am upset, but I have kept our conversations honest and direct, both in regards to the issues you are making and in the condition of the laptop.

With that in mind, I will make this very easy to understand so that there is no confusion. They laptop you sent back is not in the same physical condition as the laptop I sent to you. There is damage which resembles it having been dropped and also possibly crushed. I cannot just accept a dropped or crushed laptop computer. When accepting a return I expect the item to be in approximately the same condition as when you received it.

I have many high resolution photos of the laptop before I sent it to you. I have many photos of the laptop as I received it back from you. Between those times the laptop has clearly been damaged.

Nowhere in any of your previous messages did you mention that the laptop arrived to you in a dropped or crushed condition. I provided you with the opportunity to describe the condition of the laptop as it arrived to you. I provided you with the opportunity to correct the description of your return shipping packing methods. You have refused. I urge you to reconsider.

Email reply from buyer:

Again like I said, I returned it the same way you shipped it to me, I can’t control how it was handled by usps. I did not return it crushed. I returned it in the same condition it arrived.

Email message from me to buyer:


Can you please confirm in detail the the specific details of all damage to the laptop before it left your possession? The laptop had no lid latches before I sent it to as evidenced by the photos in the auction listing and the same enlarged photos I sent you. So beyond the lid not having a hook, what other damage did the laptop have before you returned it to me?

Additionally, can you please confirm in detail and in your own words how the laptop was packaged when you returned the laptop to me.

I received no further responses from . Notice doesn't talk about damage until after I tell her it was damaged. Also notice has refused the following:

  • Technical support to help her with her program crashing
  • Another partial refund
  • To allow the return the continue through the Ebay return process
  • To describe the condition of the laptop
  • To use the materials I sent her
  • To confirm or add to my description of her packing method

Attached are some photographs and documents I have recorded or forwarded to in an effort to resolve this matter. has refused to use any of the resources or options I provided and does not respond.

The original photos are of the item as I sent it to her. The damage photos are of the item as she return it. I've also attached photos of my packing method and hers, along with a document she could have used to highlight the damage, which she so far has refused to fill out.

With regard to packing, she shipped the laptop without any type of cushioning such as bubble wrap, foam, or other materials to prevent the item from banging around during transport. packaging is the blue box with a paper envelope. My packing is the one with a brown box and lots of protective padding and bubble wrap.

I hope I've provided you with the information you need to review this case. Thank you for considering my appeal.

You may call me at . My primary email address is .

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